the Way?

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Jesus vs Paul?

January 22nd, 2016 in Doctrine. Tags: , , , , , , ,

Difficult issues series

Jesus and Paul

It doesn’t take a lot of reading in the New Testament before you notice that Paul seems to have a different emphasis to Jesus.

Can we learn something from these apparent differences?

Some of the differences

I wouldn’t expect Paul, speaking to Gentiles, to have exactly the same message as Jesus, speaking to Jews. So I don’t think we need to be concerned about some minor differences – as, for example, are summarised here (the author is a lawyer!). But there are some major variations.

The kingdom of God?

Scholars are virtually unanimous that Jesus’ main message (his “good news”) was the dawning reality of God ruling on earth, through him (e.g. Mark 1:14-15). But for Paul, the “good news” or gospel was about justification by grace (e.g. Ephesians 2:8-10).

We shouldn’t over-state this difference. Jesus did teach the need for repentance and God’s grace (e.g. Luke 18:9-14) and Paul did see God’s “big picture” plan (e.g. Romans 8:18-25), but nevertheless there appear to be significant differences in their core teachings.

Faith vs works

Jesus taught the importance of both faith (Luke 7:50) and an obedient response to God’s call to care for the poor and marginalised (Matthew 25:31-46), with him requiring those who believe in him to follow him in doing good works (Luke 9:23-26, Matthew 28:18-20). It is interesting that Jesus’ brother has this same emphasis (James 2:17).

However Paul is very strong on salvation by grace through faith in the death of Jesus (Ephesians 2:8-10, Romans 7:21-25), something we cannot earn – though even then he still stresses that good works should follow salvation (Ephesians 2:10).

Again, it is possible to find the importance of both faith and works in both Jesus and Paul, and Jesus definitely taught (e.g. at the Last Supper) that his death was a sacrifice to provide forgiveness of sins, but there is no denying each has a different emphasis.

How much does Paul know or care about Jesus’ life?

Paul mentions the life and teachings of Jesus rarely, mostly focusing on Jesus’ death, resurrection and position as the heavenly Christ, Lord of the universe (e.g. Colossians 1:15-20). This has led some to claim that Jesus knew little about Jesus the man, or wasn’t that much interested, or was deliberately inventing a new religion.

Again, this view is often overstated. Paul’s letters contain dozens of brief references to Jesus the man and his teachings, and anyway, it is argued, Paul assumed this information was already known to his hearers. Nevertheless, Paul refers to very few of Jesus’ teachings and none of his miracles (apart from the resurrection), and it is difficult to understand this.

The Law of Moses

Paul taught that the Law (contained in our Old Testament) no longer binds the christian believer (e.g. Romans 7:6, 2 Corinthians 3:6), whereas, it is argued, Jesus upholds the Law (e.g. Matthew 5:17-20).

However I think this view of Jesus’ teachings misses a few things, such as:

  • the rest of Matthew 5, which shows Jesus correcting or superseding the Law,
  • Luke 16:16-17, where Jesus makes the startling claim that the Law applied up until John the Baptist, but is now replaced by the good news of the kingdom, and
  • his inauguration of a new covenant in the Last Supper (e.g. Luke 22:20), quite an amazing claim!

Mission

These differences mean that Jesus and Paul “evangelised” in different ways. Paul followed an approach much closer to modern evangelical approaches, pointing our human sin, the need for forgiveness and the necessary sacrifice of Jesus on the cross to pay for that sin, and calling people to turn to God in repentance and faith.

But Jesus was more flexible; he had different messages for different people. But generally, he called people to follow him in their attitudes and behaviour. He said little about sin and repentance to the common people, but made greater criticisms of and demands on the leaders.

Resolving this issue

Various response have been made to resolve this dilemma. I will only briefly sketch a few of them.

Write Paul off

People of various viewpoints (e.g. sceptics or atheists, Jews, liberal christians or humanists) simply say Paul got it wrong when he changed the teachings of Jesus (whether they see him as a failed end-times prophet, or a teacher of peace and love) into what has become modern day christianity.

It seems to me that this view ignores a whole bunch of facts:

  • the view of Jesus as a teacher of peace and love owes more to the hippies or the new age movement than it does to the Jesus of history, who was a much tougher character,
  • the apostles had already formed their gospel before Paul came on the scene (that’s what he was persecuting), and Paul claims he received his gospel from them,
  • while there was some friction between Paul and the apostles (Galatians 2:11-14) and James (Acts 15), they ended the Jerusalem Council (Acts 15) apparently united,
  • the gospels were transmitted, compiled and published by the early christian church, and they apparently didn’t see any conflict, and
  • it ignores the apparent work of the Spirit, shown throughout Acts, especially in Acts 9 (Saul’s conversion) and Acts 10 (Peter taking the gospel to the Gentiles) in broadening the Jewish focus of Jesus’ ministry.

In the end, this may (perhaps) be a view that a sceptic can reasonably hold, but I cannot see how someone who believes Jesus was sent from God can think his ministry could have been perverted so seriously and so soon.

Nothing to see here, move along now

Various attempts have been made to minimise the apparent problem. These have varying degrees of historical basis:

  • Many christian teachers just ignore the problem. This generally means reinterpreting Jesus in the light of Pauline and Reformation theology, and often leads to interpretations of Jesus’ parables and teachings that are historically quite unlikely.
  • John Piper has argued that Jesus preached Paul’s gospel, that is “the imputation of his righteousness by grace alone through faith alone”. But this approach seems to me not to respect the Bible (an accusation that would horrify Piper), but rather makes the gospels and Jesus conform to Piper’s reading of Reformed theology.
  • Evangelicals (e.g. David Wenham) can also try to show how Paul really teaches the kingdom of God, just in other words. I think this is a better and more Jesus-honouring response than Piper’s, but I still think it distorts Biblical teaching.

Perhaps there are reasons for the difference?

Some christians find explanations for the differences, including:

  • Jesus was speaking to Jews, Paul to Gentiles. Since we are mostly speaking to Gentiles, we should adopt Paul’s approach.
  • Jesus was speaking into a culture that was burdened down with an unwieldy religious tradition, whereas Paul was speaking to pagans. Since our culture (in the west) is jaded with religion, we should follow Jesus’ approach.
  • Jesus was speaking before the cross and resurrection, so we should follow Paul who was speaking after these critical events.
  • Jesus was the son of God speaking to all humanity, whereas Paul was speaking into specific Graeco-Roman culture, so we should start with Jesus’ teachings and modify as appropriate.

I can’t help feeling there is some truth in each of these understandings, but in the end there is no “killer” argument to take us one way or the other.

Develop a new understanding

Eminent historian NT Wright argues that Paul’s views were built on his Jewish understanding of God’s covenant with Abraham and the Jews, in which God promised to deliver them and restore them. But the coming of Jesus the Messiah achieved far more than the Jews expected. Wright says: “Paul’s teaching on justification, the law, etc. is best understood as the radical reworking of these debates around the new fixed point: that Israel’s God had returned in the person of Israel’s Messiah and that, in his crucifixion and resurrection, he had not only launched but had also redefined the “age to come””

Wright has set out his reflections in the 1700 page Paul and the Faithfulness of God, and, not having read it, I can’t pretend to understand his views well. But it is apparent that Wright re-interprets Reformed concepts like salvation and justification. He accepts that Paul taught differently to Jesus, but argues that this was the necessary next step in saving the world.

Scott McKnight takes a somewhat similar, but simpler view. He argues that the key to understand Jesus and Paul is the gospel (= “good news”). Jesus presented the good news in terms of the kingdom while Paul presented it in terms of justification, but they both see the gospel as being the story of Jesus, “the saving story of Jesus that completes Israel’s story”.

McKnight argues that Jesus saw his life in this way, and Paul’s summary of his gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-8 is also an outline of the story of Jesus (a claim I think is a little unjustified).

I am a great fan of both Wright and McKnight (see my review of McKnight’s King Jesus Gospel) but I can’t help feeling they too gloss over the differences a little, and explain some things away.

A way forward?

I am not a theologian, but simply a practical christian. I think there must be a simple way to approach all this, otherwise most of us cannot know what God wants us to believe and how he wants us to live. So while I recommend reading Wright, McKnight and others on this matter, here is my very tentative provisional response.

1. Stop expecting the Bible to present one consistent view.

The experts tell us that the Jews saw their scriptures less as a set of immutable teachings, and more as a source of different ideas which expressed different approaches to and aspects of God’s character. We can see the logic of this, for God must be so far “above” us that we can only understand him by analogy and via incomplete statements.

As christians who have been given the Holy Spirit, we should pray for wisdom to understand what God is saying to us through his scriptures. Rather than explain away a difficult passage by reference to one we find easier, we should seek the Spirit’s guidance (collectively) to show us how to balance the different perspectives we see in scripture. And we shouldn’t be afraid of uncertainty.

2. It is Jesus we are following.

Western Protestant theology has (in my opinion) over-emphasised Paul’s theology at the expense of Jesus’ teachings and actions. This surely can’t be right! But there is a slow turning in present-day christianity, leading to a more Jesus-centred approach, which broadens our understanding of Gods good news and which cares less for denominational or theological positions.

I wholeheartedly endorse this move. I think this approach is more faithful to scripture and to Jesus than trying to resolve what God has not resolved for us. But we need to remember that we are not Jews (most of us) and many of Jesus’ statements were directed at his fellow Jews. We need to allow the Spirit to guide us how to apply these.

3. We should try to be faithful to both Jesus’ and Paul’s perspectives.

If we respect the scriptures, we will try to read each book in context and absorb its message, and not allow some parts to over-write the message of other parts.

I think it is possible to be faithful to both perspectives. I have outlined an attempt to do that for the doctrines of salvation in What message?. In my next post I will explore some ideas about faith vs works.

4. We will do mission differently.

Instead of always closely following Paul’s salvation message, we will follow Jesus and try to speak what will be most meaningful to our cultures and to the individuals we are speaking to. We will invite them to follow Jesus, and offer them positive hope when we can (like Jesus offered two women accused of sexual sin (Luke 7:36-50 and John 8:1-11).

What do you think?

I’m interested to hear how others think about this question, what other authors you have read on the subject, and whether you feel the church presently has got this right. Please leave a comment.

Other references

Besides those quoted in the post, you may be interested in these:

Photo Credits: Nick in exsilio via Compfight cc and G.dallorto (Own work), via Wikimedia Commons.

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28 Comments

  1. To me, as I read through the New Testament prior to encountering Christ, or more likely being encountered by him spiritually at the age of 30, and even after becoming his follower, I experienced the scriptures as an unified whole. I didn’t have any preconceptions about the gospel, didn’t have any denominational guides to pass on to me their preconceptions or obligations (!), so I didn’t think there was any divergence between the teaching of Jesus and that of Paul, other than the chronological transformational differences one would expect from world changing consequences of Jesus’ life, teaching, death, resurrection, and spirit endowing coming of the kingdom in new covenant power.
    OK, so I’m not going to get into a verse by verse reprise of the transformations of thinking necessitated by the new things God accomplished in those events in order to undo the theological cultures that have evolved since the reformation in particular, the insistence on a law/grace dichotomy or the attempts to dismiss or undermine the teaching influence of Paul as he has been (mis-)interpreted, because that is not my calling as a pseudo student of scripture. Suffice it to say that I think if one were willing to see a unified purpose and process of God behind the whole canonical history the assumptions about Jesus and Paul having different gospels or even different theological or ethical differences could easily be dismissed.
    For those in the Anabaptist/Mennonite tradition the way of dealing with these kinds of debates goes under the rubric of their being “neither Catholic nor Protestant.” Needless to say, Jesus and Paul were neither as well (not to mention not being Gospel dismantling critics). For a biblicist (non-literalist) it is easy for me to see that Jesus’ teaching regarding the Kingdom of God smoothly and uniformly transitioned into Paul’s teaching on the supremacy of Christ, the messiah King, the teaching of whom coincided precisely with that of Paul. For Paul the reality of God’s Kingdom was appropriately centered on the rule of Christ, God’s most intimate representative. After learning of the kind of debate in discussion here, it was so readily evident to me that Jesus and Paul were engaged in the same spiritual work that I named my son Matthew Paul.

  2. Hi Richard, thanks for your comments and the insight into your journey. I think having no “denominational guides” was probably an advantage.
    I think if it all looks consistent to you then that is good – the best way to be. But if one comes to the conclusion that there was an apparent inconsistency, then it has to be worked through. I have found that journey very stimulating and helpful but it isn’t a journey everyone needs to go on.
    Thanks again.

  3. I believe a consistent theme in the old and New Testament is that of God looking at our hearts (faith), looking at our lives (works) and judging us (God’s judgement).
    And this seems to be the pervasive theme which we would miss if we look at a Salvation from the evangelical point of Jesus as a “ticket” to heaven.
    If it’s as easy as reciting a “Sinner’s Prayer” – which does not exist in Scripture, then Jesus wouldn’t warn us of how many would be surprised – not all who say to him Lord, Lord would enter the kingdom of heaven.
    Yes. We need Jesus to justify and purify us from all fallen self. But there is a clear need for repentence and there is judgement for all.
    So, to me, many may be surprised when we die. It isn’t as simple as what some evangelical churches proclaim – especially the so called Hypergrace ministry. The gate remains small and the road narrow. He may say “I never knew you”. Why did Jesus say that?
    Perhaps I digress from a strict Jesus vs Paul post. But I hope you see my point…

  4. Hi, I see your point very well, and I agree. We have simplified things down to something that is only half true. Thanks for your comment.

  5. To say that Paul presented the gospel “in terms of justification” is not an uncommon perspective, but I’d guess that only about 5% of what he said about the gospel was couched in those terms. The righteousness of God is not just related to justification as conceived by majority Protestant thinking. Paul said desire was to “bring about the obedience of faith.” Justification and “righteousification” go together for Paul: “the [justificaseousness] of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The one who by faith is righteous shall live.”
    I look forward to your thought on faith and works.

  7. This is an interesting article. I think another reason for the different emphasis of the same message might have something to do with Paul’s personal journey. A persecutor turned promoter would surely be overwhelmed by the justification that he received. His gospel in a sense was his own personal testimony.

  8. Thanks for the thoughts, guys. I kind of think all you both say might be so, but still there is something left to understand and explain. It’s something to keep thinking (and praying) about.

  9. unkleE I’m pleased to see that your eyes are beginning to open. The first seeds are beginning to sprout. Pray for eyes that see, ears that hear, and a heart that understands. I hope that you continue on this journey.

  10. Hi BTJN, thanks for reading and commenting – and at least partially agreeing. I think I may not be on exactly the same journey as you, but I am interested to discuss. What did you think about my conclusion, which tries to apply both Jesus and Paul to how we live and believe today?

  11. Here’s what I understand, and hopefully this is what God has enlightened me with so far:
    Jesus IS the kingdom as He himself tells the Pharisees in Luke 17:21 so since Paul preached about Jesus, as we can see in Colossians 1:15-20, he then also preached the kingdom.
    I guess all this discussion comes up because christians want to know who to follow or what to do in order to live in accordance to our faith/God. Maybe some even worry about what to do in order to “be saved” (in other words have eternal life). Honestly all this is very simply explained by Jesus in Luke 10:25-37 but I will explain in a little more detail how, to my understanding, both Paul and Jesus preached the same thing:
    Here’s the simple way to put it: we must FIRST believe AND THEN do the works. We must know that just “being good” is not what washes away the wrong we’ve done (our sins) or gives us eternal life. Both Jesus and Paul explained this.
    Jesus talked to Jews who already knew about the Law and KNEW they fell short of it – except some of the religious like the Pharisees who wanted to believe that their “good deeds” already made them superior than everybody else and probably, in their eyes, “more lovable or holier” in front of God. But good deeds don’t wash away our sins -erase everything wrong we’ve done. Jesus and his sacrifice for us is who/what washes them away or forgives us. See in Luke 10:25-37, regarding the question of how to inherit eternal life, how the -expert of the law- tells Jesus that the written Law says (FIRST) “love the Lord your God…” and (THEN) says “love your neighbor as yourself.” And Jesus agrees. Because someone (who’s is rational at least) FIRST will believe in God (thus in Jesus) and THEN will do as God orders: loving your neighbor as yourself.
    Paul explains this to the so called gentiles, non-Jews/people who were not raised with the Law (Old Testament) and probably didn’t even know what it said, if they knew about it at all. If they were to think that just by being good they would inherit the eternal life that Paul was preaching about he reminds them that FIRST they must have faith. Here’s the key though: it FOLLOWS that someone who FIRST has faith in Jesus/God will then want to do what Jesus/God commands.
    Best regards to everybody who seeks Truth,
    Chris

  12. Hi Chris, that is a very interesting and well argued comment, and I think it helps in the discussion of this matter. But I don’t feel it answers all the questions.
    For example, I don’t interpret Luke 17:21 as meaning Jesus was the kingdom, but that the kingdom is a matter of our heart attitude, i.e. whether we give allegiance to Jesus. If a community does that, then the kingdom is there.
    I think you are right that there are lots of parallels between Jesus’ and Paul’s teachings (you’d certainly hope so!), but I don’t think they are quite as close as you say.
    And I don’t think Luke 10:25-37 can be interpreted as first believe then do good works. Jesus was speaking to Jews who already believed in God, this statement was simply echoing the OT that we should love God and love neighbour, a different meaning I feel to what you say. When Jesus asks people to believe, it is in him, that he is the Messiah, etc, which isn’t the subject here.
    But I don’t want to be too negative. I like a lot of what you say, I think it adds to my understanding, so thanks for your comment.

  13. It’s awesome that I added to your understanding. You added to mine and I totally agree with all four points you made at the end of the article on “A Way Forward?”
    Institutionalized christianity, scholars, and whoever else are never gonna get it right until their main concern is a search for Truth and not just controlling the masses; maybe when more questions are made before rules are given.
    I just want to add one thing. Regarding Luke 10:25-37 You wrote “Jesus was speaking to Jews who already believed in God, this statement was simply echoing the OT that we should love God and love neighbour.” However in this stance Jesus was not speaking to Jews, per se, but to one Jew, so called “an expert of the law” in the passage. Also, Jesus was not only echoing the OT but answering a very specific question that was asked by the man: “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
    This discussion has brought up some delightful questions to me. The core of the discussion is “the gospel” and whether it’s to be known as the kingdom on Earth or justification by grace. I wonder what exactly is the purpose of “the gospel.” Is it about inheriting eternal life? Living according to the kingdom here on Earth while we’re alive? About both? And what was exactly was the purpose of the Messiah? Like you said “we should seek the Spirit’s guidance” and “we shouldn’t be afraid of uncertainty.”
    At the end of the day, it is Jesus and my faith in Him that has led me here. But first I was led to Jesus because He brought light into my life, took me out of dark places and gave me peace of mind and an enjoyable curiosity about the Creator of our universe and my life-and that’s what matters most to me.
    Chris

  14. Hi Chris, this is an encouraging conversation, thanks.
    “At the end of the day, it is Jesus and my faith in Him that has led me here. But first I was led to Jesus because He brought light into my life, took me out of dark places and gave me peace of mind and an enjoyable curiosity about the Creator of our universe and my life-and that’s what matters most to me.”
    I would be interested to hear a little more of your journey, if you feel OK about sharing it – either here, or by email (there’s a link at the top) or if you have a blog yourself.
    “The core of the discussion is “the gospel” and whether it’s to be known as the kingdom on Earth or justification by grace. I wonder what exactly is the purpose of “the gospel.” Is it about inheriting eternal life? Living according to the kingdom here on Earth while we’re alive? About both? “
    I think these are tremendously important questions. I’m inclined to think we try to formularise God too much. From the gospel record, we can see that Jesus responded to each person differently, I presume appropriately as he saw the person and their need. So I have to conclude that God is like that too. So I think both sides of the questions you are asking are true – it is about eternal life AND living in the kingdom, and we get there by being justified AND by following Jesus. I think theologians often try to pin things down to one answer when often the answer is yes, both sides have seen some truth.
    Thanks.

  15. “So I think both sides of the questions you are asking are true – it is about eternal life AND living in the kingdom, and we get there by being justified AND by following Jesus.”
    Man I love that statement. Such a clear summary of the points we’ve discussed.
    You asked me to share a little about my journey. I will be vague here but if you happen to find anything interesting I’m willing to talk more either here and/or through e-mail.
    I’m a 23 year old guy. I think people around me might not guess I believe so much in God because I don’t act like a typical religious Christian or go to church to be honest. But here’s the reason I believe.
    I felt very depressed through my early teen years (about 11-14) because I had a fair amount of problems at home and at school. I didn’t really believe in God but when I thought of Him I would feel anger cause I thought that if He existed I wouldn’t see a reason for life, specifically mine at the time, to be so difficult, chaotic, and problematic.
    I once went to a school psychologist who far from helping made me think that nobody could change my situation so what was the point of even trying “to get help.” I felt so helpless that the only solution I thought about quite a few times was to commit suicide (although I felt afraid of trying).
    The pivotal change in my journey was a day that I randomly found a book titled “Help me, I’m discouraged!” I thought it was of course gonna be one of those stupid self-help books that tell you to think differently or whatever. But for some reason, the fact that it mentioned God in the synopsis made me open it. I finished reading the book very quickly and after the prayer offered to receive Jesus in my life I felt a very deep sense of peace and joy. In the days and months after, when I started praying and having faith in God, I experienced true change in my life. Not only was my mind opening to a new life perspective, but even problems I had no control over started getting solved. I am thankful for Joyce Mayer, the author of that short but concise book, and forever thankful to God for using it as a way to reach out to me.
    I started with a deep love for Jesus and eager to live life again. I then went through a time of confusion as I wanted to find out more of Him but didn’t find answers to my questions at major churches; from the Catholic and the orthodox to the evangelical and to the so called non-denominational. Today, having learned a lot thanks to the Internet (through website like yours) and because of my thirst for truth I have found many answers and feel grounded again.
    Although I experienced short periods of discomfort as I questioned my beliefs and mainstream dogma, such as the idea of hell or premarital sex, I felt great liberation and relief as I found truth. That’s why John 8:12 is a principle in my life: “then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
    I think a very important factor in my faith is that it didn’t come through a church or a method of doing things. I started believing because I experienced Jesus in my life. When I was going through confusion I got to a place of obsession to find answers, not only for myself but for the non-believers. I thought it was so important to answer those who genuinely wanted to get to know the Truth so they could experience God. But today I understand something: it is not having answers that gave me peace and a reformed life. It was and still is God who gave me such things.
    That’s why, my main concern is not only having answers but taking action, being practical with my faith, and being myself with others, praying that God may use me to reach out to them if He so pleases. My experience with God is also why, even after churches and people failed to answer me, instead of letting go of my faith altogether, I have kept my eyes in Him.
    I wanna also add that I come from a very culturally diverse background. I was born in Guatemala but my parents and my family are from Syria which I visited every summer for 16 years. I lived in Guatemala for about 18 years of my life before moving to the USA, where I live now. I believe the different cultures and languages I have been raised in have given me a unique perspective on my Christian faith.
    Since my comment has gotten so long I just want to thank you for asking me to share my journey so far. Writing it down reminded me of where I’ve come from and where I am. It feels good.
    I read your story and it’s inspiring. You’re now part of the men that I look up to in my faith along with William Lane Craig and James R. Brayshaw.
    Chris

  16. Hi Chris,
    Thanks so much for sharing all that, it was most interesting and even inspiring. I’m glad you’ve found this website helpful, and hope we can continue to discuss issues you find interesting.
    But it may be good to connect by email as well, so I will probably send you an email shortly.
    Best wishes.

  17. Jesus brought with Him the keys to the Kingdom. The keys are His teachings. He is the door. You gain entry by obeying His teachings. You won’t obey His teachings if you don’t trust Him because the teachings are too selfless for the insincere. You see, trusting in Jesus means trusting that His command to obey Him to gain entrance is true. His teachings are centered on loving your neighbor as yourself but demonstrate a way of doing so that most won’t accept. So this shows that your trust in Him makes the door appear but it’s your obedience that gets you in and keeps you in. You have been saved by trusting alone. Trusting that obedience to Jesus will save you.
    Hebrews 5:9 NIV
    and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
    Jesus is the Way, Truth, Life. Paul is not. Following Paul won’t save you. Paul said If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord ,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Jesus said, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” Jesus says it’s more than spoken words and believing the correct thing but it’s what you do that matters. Paul says similar things but many stumble around forgetting that Jesus spelled it out just fine.

  18. Hi Jeffrey, thanks for your thoughts. I agree with a lot of what you say. I feel that any “either-or” solution to the faith vs works or Jesus vs Paul questions may be not quite right. I see that yours is not strictly an either-or response, but I feel it neglects a few things in the NT that I feel are important. But we are on similar tracks I think.

  19. The import question to ask is “do we have the actual words of Jesus Christ in the Gospels?” If we find the answer to be “yes”, then by the very nature of the words of Jesus Christ, we must obey and follow those primarily. As Jesus says in John 14:23 “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. 24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me.” There are some things that brother Paul says that are his own opinions; because he was writing to the churches that he help to start. Jesus Christ the Son of God declared “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My Words will never pass away.” Mathew 24:35

  20. Yes, I tend to agree with you, although I think there may be some things that Jesus said that were addressed specifically to first century Jews. Thanks for your thoughts.

  21. I don’t know, I grew up with the bible but recently in my 30’s while starting to re-read the bible starting with the beginning of the New Testament I can only get the message from Christ to follow his words and what he has said. Thats why he said them after all. I feel like Paul wasnt around during the life of Christ. How many years after Christ death was Paul born? Paul reminds me of others that came after Christ with their interpretation of Christ like John Smith with the Mormon church.

  22. Hi Oscar, thanks for your thoughts. I don’t think people know for sure when Paul was born, but it seems he was probably about the same age as Jesus, or maybe a little younger. That means he could easily have been in Jerusalem when Jesus was teaching there, though that is only conjecture.
    I think Paul and others did interpret Jesus’ teaching in their own way, but I don’t think that is necessarily bad. After all, Jesus lived in a particular time and place, and many of his teachings were very much related to his being a Jew and responding to other Jewish teachers.
    But like you, I feel most drawn to Jesus’ teachings.

  24. Thanks for the compliment, Michael. Some people would say I am more foolish than bold! But I feel the christian church’s status quo needs a lot of challenge these days!

  25. Matthew 5:17-20 is not proof of Jesus commanding us to follow the law. He is actually stating that the law is not destroyed, but fulfilled. He states in verse 18 that everything of the law has to be fulfilled. Why? because that is how God established it. In fact, if you were to continue reading verses Matthew 5:21-48 Jesus distinguishes between the law of old and what he is introducing. Focus on Jesus referring to the old law, then explaining “But” there is a new thing now.
    “Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time” v21, … “But, now I tell you” v22
    “Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time” v27, … “But, now I tell you” v28
    “It was also said” v31, … “But, now I tell you” v32
    “You have also heard that people were told in the past” v33, …”But now I tell you” v34
    “Ye have heard that it was said” v38, …”But now I tell you” v39
    “Ye have heard that it was said” v43, … “But now I tell you” v44

  26. Hi Derick, thanks for your thoughts. It is gratifying that this post is still attracting readers and comments 6 years after it was written.

    And it seems we are in agreement here. There is a difference between destroyed and fulfilled. It is possible to continue to live under the old Law if we choose to, but the new covenant is better. Luke 16:16 makes this clear: “The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it.” Nevertheless, the law remains – presumably we have a choice: “It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.” (verse 17)

    Thanks again.

  27. I have had a mistrust of the church since I was a boy. Being raised Catholic in the 1970’s and early 1980’s, the church has always been hypocrites. There’s no love there and there’s no Jesus either. I’ve tried different denominations, and the same constant persists. Christians love Paul but ignore Christ’s teachings and the church elevates Paul’s teaching above the Lord’s. Why bother following Christ’s teachings and the Law of Moses when we can sin and as long as we believe in Jesus ask for forgiveness, we can find salvation. But didn’t the demons also believe in Jesus? Why did God not allow David to build the temple? I’ve heard it was because he had too much blood on his hands. So, are we to believe that a murderer such as Paul was allowed to build the new church? Believe what you want, but Christians are the evilest people I have ever known. I’ll take my chances with the prostitutes and tax collectors.

  28. G’day Tom, I’m really sorry to hear of your negative experiences of church. Many people have good experiences, but unfortunately, there are too many who feel as you do.

    Do you have any belief in God now?

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